Gmail enters the "extend" phase of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish by creating new proprietary features for email then forcing non-gmail users the view the mail through a link with Google Login (and sometimes SMS confirmation!)
@paul guess it's time to get on Protonmail's paid plan...
I agree. Support other email providers. google obviously feel they have a critical mass of users now that this move is worth it.
If I ever receive one of these links I will ask the sender to use another method
Worth remembering even for self-hosters:
Network effects increase the extent to which *other* people's choices affect us.
I wonder if the two implementations are interoperable? (I'll take a guess and say no!)
Yeah I'm not in favour of Proton Mail doing it either, although I don't know if they require a login and/or sms verification to view the mail.
Maybe best look at another provider or do what I do and self-host.
I've had this feature on Protonmail for months and it's just not that useful, nor is it evil
I think the bigger threat is how Gmail kinda-sorta blocks smaller email providers
And I would highly recommend Protonmail, btw
@paul And thus we enter the era of screenshot email saving 🙄
@paul And of course, Google will still read your confidential mail and monetize your data.
@phryk They claim they don't do that anymore, but there's no way of knowing for sure
@phryk oops, meant to stick this link on that toot!
@paul Even if that one is technically correct, they still have your complete social graph and I *highly* doubt, they'll ever stop using gmail metadata – it's just too damn valuable for them.
@phryk too right. They're too scared of Facebook to give all that up for nothing
I’ve been considering moving away from Gmail for a while now, but so much of my online identity is tied to that gmail account.
So many logins. So many rarely used services.
I don’t think I could get away with abandoning it entirely, but I could probably get another address set up with another service and start the migration? A domain I control, but hosted through a big service?
@ajroach42 If you're used to sysadmin tasks, setting up your own email server with postfix/dovecot and friends is pretty easy and once it's done, requires minimal maintenance. I've been running my own server for years.
If you don't have the time or desire, setting up a custom domain on Protonmail or Fastmail along with redirection for your old address should take no longer than an hour.
Then it's just a case of updating accounts to use the new address
@paul @bhtooefr @ajroach42 I'm lucky, my isp provides a static IP for £1 per month so self hosting from home is easy. In the past I have also hosted from home on a dynamic ip with no reverse DNS and only ever had deliverability problems to hotmail addresses occasionally. There aren’t actually many servers that will block you just for having dynamic IP
@bhtooefr @paul @ajroach42 no never. I make sure DKIM and SPF are good and deliverability is fine. The only issues have been Microsoft just dropping emails occasionally. There are loads of post on stack overflow and elsewhere where ppl suffer the same thing. Their servers say they have received the message and will deliver it, then it’s just dropped with the receiver never seeing the email.
@bhtooefr @paul @ajroach42 you have to find the well hidden MS tools to register ownership of your domain/IPs and that helps. Will send you a link once I’m near a computer. They also try to up sell you to a company called returnpath which will guarantee you always get delivered to Outlook/Hotmail for about $5000 dollars per year. It’s a total racket.
If you do the recommendations there and set everything else up to best practices you’ll be fine
@paul I’ve done this in the past, but I ran in to trouble with the spam filters.
Doesn't matter where you host it. Just start transitioning to it, and you can change hosts at your leisure.
My email was first hosted with Google Apps, then with Cotse, and now with Fastmail (which I love and recommend.)
@paul like ProtonMail haven't been doing the same for encrypting messages to non-PM users.
@tdemin if they have that’s bad (and do they require login and sms verification?), but they don’t have the same level of influence as gmail so it’s not much of a threat yet.
@paul @tdemin Protonmail only needs a passphrase to access a message not login/sms. They give a place for you to give a hint. Otherwise it's up to you to provide the shared secret outside of the email.
I'd prefer encryption at the user level via pgp, but this at least gives me the option to force people to embrace it if they want to read my message. My track record for selling pgp use is pretty much nil.
On the other hand, it vastly increases social engineering risk.
Something like the signal protocol over email would be nice, but I think most ppl see email as being insecure forever sadly
I hope this time people will realize that stallmann was right: all non-freesoftware is inherently evil.
@paul Let the unmitigated harassment with no paper trail BEGIN!
Proton mail has had something like this for a while I think
@paul Same is the case with ProtonMail's encrypted email that only works between users of the same email service, disregarding technologies like PGP which work irrespective of email providers.
Thunderbird's enigmail should be made easier to use. And a mobile version maybe. These should be recommended instead of ProtonMail.
@metalbob aye I agree with this, although not sure if PGP/GPG is simply too much for the average user to manage successfully over multiple devices without it ending in tragedy
@paul That article mentions an optional SMS code but not login. I guess it's no more confidential than email if it doesn't require login, though.
Definitely going to auto-reject these on my mail server.
@paul If I have to log into Google to view one of their screwball "self-destructing" emails I'm going to email the sender back and say "please send me a normal email". Proprietary extensions defeat the whole purpose of email, and the entire purpose of many emails is to be a semi-permanent record. Take that away and we may as well be communicating by smoke signals.
@paul looks like a solution in search of a problem... it's only going to be as secure as the end recipient's system (ignoring the blatant security hole of trusting Google to begin with), and while you may not be able to "forward, download or copy" the message I'd be incredibly surprised if they found a way to block screenshots...
@paul well, it's simple: if one day I receive an email that uses this feature, I simply reply the sender to send me the email again, without using that shitty function.
@paul Would like to point out that it's most likely in reaction to Micro$oft doing the same thing already... https://mastodon.social/@unextro/99864097819011196
@unextro oh they’re all at it! Tbh I thought this looked more like a Microsoft tactic Than google, and there it is!
I’ll actually be surprised if it does work “seamlessly” in outlook, because normal email doesn’t
@paul For all the talk about the new Microsoft it still look the same to me under the new coating.
Already in their usual game with PWAs... "PWAs installed via the store will ... have access to the full suite of WinRT APIs available to UWP apps. They can differentiate their experience on Windows 10 with enhancements like access to local calendar and contacts data (with permission) and more." (https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2018/02/06/welcoming-progressive-web-apps-edge-windows-10)
@unextro yes agreed. It surprises me that anyone thinks they have changed! Although maybe the comments I see are paid MS posts planted to sway opinion
ProtonMail already does this for encrypted emails. I'm not totally convinced this is necessarily malign... Well not when ProtonMail did it anyway.
@saltorito I dunno, they could have made it more like proton’s version with a password instead of a login / sms. It just seems like another excuse to track and gather more info on people rather than just provide the service.
@paul Yeah, thinking about it, you are almost certainly correct.
@tomas yeah I didn’t think of that. Surely not hard to write a browser extension that does this or something similar
@paul its completely fake security too lol
@paul companies have been doing this for years, especially in the health care industry.
@astraluma yeah it’s very tempting to lock people in to using proprietary features. Especially scary in healthcare. When the end goal is profit and market share end user goals aren’t always aligned with the vendor I guess
@paul actually, in that case, I think it's the complete unusability of pgp and s/mine and a strong business need for secure mail.
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