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One time I saw someone do this:

* Open safari on their iPad
* Type "google"
* click the google result for google search
* Type Facebook in the google search box
* Tap Facebook search result
* "Why aren't I logged in, I have the app installed" (app is on home screen)

If this is the level of understanding of web / app technology there is little hope currently of doing much about surveillance capitalism.

surveillance politics 

@paul it absolutely is the level.

That's why we need media competences education in *elementary schools*.

@rysiek Yeah I'd say classes throughout school detailing complexities of ads, tracking, how personal data is generated, how inferences are made about people etc.

@paul but also critical thinking, practical basics of encryption, empathy and ethics online, and so on.

@paul well then, you'll be happy to learn that I've co-authored a media competences catalogue for formal education, translated into EN and RU: ifapcom.ru/files/News/Images/2 (starts p.351)

@paul I am a lecturer at a university teaching database systems to bachelor students of media computer science. This is exactly the behaviour I'm seeing nearly every day! Students! of! Computer! Science! m(

@paul and that's exactly my behaviour, when I'm seeing this…

@paul A few weeks ago google did some tweaks on their search algorithms, so our learning platform (moodle) wasn't number one in the search results anymore, when the students were looking for moodle plus the name of the university. They where literally lost. No one had set a bookmark or could remember the URL for our moodle instance. :(

@paul All they could find was the link to the Brazilian Portuguese language version of our moodle instance. (it was somewhere down in the resultslist). So they used Google Translate instead of just switching the language back to German in the moodle web frontend. At this moment I wanted everyone to fail the class.

@paul could have been my students. But it's true. Google is the synonym for search engines. The same students have to examine the famous 2006 AOL search engine leak. Nearly every student is talking about the users who have "googled" (in a search engine by AOL)

@humpaaa
To be honest, often it's easier to google a page rather than to try to find it trough a cryptic navigation menu on University website. I see where the practice is coming from.
@paul

@pixel @paul that's true, but in this case the URL is just a subdomain called 'lms' (learning management system). At my former university the subdomain was 'moodle'. Both is not that hard to remember.

@paul yesterday I've seen someone find somebody's LinkedIn profile in the app and not understand why he couldn't see the Facebook photos from here

@paul

Our approach may definitely have to come from a legislative level because I don't see that mode of tech usage changing anytime soon lol

human focused tech laws are in the same category as healthy economic solutions for me

And none of any of that will get completed until we clean up the entire political process to 'decent' levels.

Lots of work to do!

@paul When I used Windows back in the old days 10+ years ago for many people the blue E icon was the internet (as in the Internet Explorer icon).

@paul I have seen people googling 'google' in search bar too 🤣

@paul ... and thus the eternal problem. In the end, you will likely recognize that any statement or notion beginning with, "if" and followed by idealized user behavior (like competence, mindful operation) is the substantial equivalent of a unicorn fart.

Now one begins again... with reality. :-)

@paul It's easy to live in a happy tech bubble and forget that most people probably don't know what a web browser is. And I'm not talking about dumb people here either -- I can think of plenty of perfectly bright, charming people who just know nothing about computers. In an ideal world they shouldn't need to because people wouldn't be so dedicated to preying on them (by spamming them with ads, phishing them, or luring them into predatory services like Gmail or Facebook). Of course the problem is it's not an ideal world. I just don't know how to tell people that they need to learn a TON of stuff (and it is a lot) in order to protect themselves when, to them, it will appear like nothing's wrong.

What's that thing? Where you don't know enough to know how much you don't know?

@stjohn totally agree. I think this is the first time in history where there is something so widely used but also so misunderstood by most of its users.

@paul this seems to be the level of understanding thats pretty much the norm here in New Orleans for anyone 30+

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