As usual, @brainwane's writing on a complicated topic are clear, thoughtful, direct, and bring the receipts to the table: "Not The First Time We Tried (FSF, GNU, RMS, etc.)"

It's the thing that gets me with the support for RMS, You can point at this, and Bradley's and Matthew's posts and some folks will see it as a corporate conspiracy leading a mob. Rather than wonder if the environment drove people elsewhere. Nearly a week later and I'm still stunned at it happening and the way it was handled. If the FSF can't change then we need to move on.

@onepict @cwebber @brainwane The open letter made it a lot easier to defend Stallman. If it was about the issues mentioned in this blog post, there would be a lot less resistance. Instead, they accuse Stallman of having "shown himself to be misogynist, ableist, and transphobic, ...", and petition for his removal based on "his hurtful and dangerous ideology". But there's sparse public evidence for these accusations, and in at least one case, his supposed transphobia, there's ample evidence of the contrary. People will interpret these inaccuracies as character assassination and discredit any genuine issues with him based on these.

@acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane Have you read this post?

It acknowledges there have been some mischaracterizations, analyzes them one by one, but still clearly identifies what *did* happen and comes to a conclusion about this decision to surprise-reappoint him and how it was clearly a bad idea.


@cwebber @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane

I think Stallman's behaviour can be characterized as misogyny, that's not excessive

When women publish reports about you, write on twitter they stayed away because of you, and you insist for 20 years, that means you don't give a damn what a category of people is saying

And that category of people is women

So no, sorry, social awkwardness doesn't cut it, here

there's not intent only. There are effects too

@cwebber @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane

I didn't read about ableism because I have enough of this

As for transphobia, sorry but that's not just a preference about linguistic issues

If you insist on a solution that no one else will adopt, when the rest of the world has settled on they/them, you are transphobic

Posting about trans right is free, especially for a person like him

Doing something is not free and he wasn't ready to do something

So, no, sorry. He was transphobic

@AbbieNormal @cwebber @onepict @brainwane I don't see how it would be transphobic to use other gender neutral pronouns. I understand that it is silly, but I don't see why would it be hateful towards trans persons. I'm not trans so could you please explain so I can understand?

@acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

the solution for not misgendering people should be one only

using several different ways of using gender neutral pronouns will make the whole thing unusable, impractical, in many cases a joke for the amusememnt of many morons who refer to him as an example.

it's a substantial sabotage of the effort

your linguistic preferences are not ore important of the actual well being of people

@acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

I could say: I would use gender neutral pronouns but I link zoomba/zoorba only

That would be a cruel joke

@acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

His preference was just an excuse for not giving the trans community the desire of establishing a more bearable language

@acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

when the world has settled on they/them, your insistence for something else that nobody will use is an excuse for not using they/them and thus misgendering people

and you'll give the excuse to the hoardes of morons who will refer to you as an example

it's not a matter of linguistic style

it's a substantial issue

it's not that hard

@AbbieNormal @onepict @brainwane @cwebber Personally I use they/them, but I would prefer if there was separate singular and plural third (and second) person pronouns. Does that make me transphobic?

I don't think the accusation against Stallman is serious. He clearly supports the actual well being of trans people, which as you said is more important, his wacky language reform ideas seems harmless eccentricity compared to that.

@acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

yes, you are being transphobic

not only because of your linguistic preferences

but because you write that this is harmless

it's not

@acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

and the reason why it's not was clear even before you asked for clarification

you are trying to hijack the discussion

@AbbieNormal @onepict @brainwane @cwebber I am genuinely trying to understand why people think Stallman is transphobic despite his support of trans rights. I still don't see how a language reform meant to make life easier could be described as hateful.
@AbbieNormal @brainwane @cwebber @onepict In my native language we have separate gender plural and singular third and second person pronouns so that feels natural to me.

@AbbieNormal @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber To put it simply, when someone says "please refer to me this way" and your response is "nah, I'll keep referring to you the way I think is best", you're disrespecting them. If I tell you to call me Be, and you insist on calling me Cthulhu, that's not harmless, that's being disrespectful.

@be @AbbieNormal @onepict @brainwane @cwebber Stallman said that if someone asks to be referred by they/them you should respect that.

@acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber @AbbieNormal He still has '"They" is plural — for singular antecedents, use singular gender-neutral pronouns.' in bold on the front page of, and as @AbbieNormal said, the rest of the world has pretty much settled on they/them.

It's as much a power play on his part as well. He wants you to know he will call you what he wants to. Which is abusive.
@acuteanniemay @brainwane @cwebber @AbbieNormal

@be @onepict @brainwane @cwebber @AbbieNormal I assumed that when it is a preferred pronoun it is no longer neutral because it refers to that person's gender in particular, but you might be right about it.

@AbbieNormal @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber Would you accept that argumentation for any other topic?

“if you argue, you’re being <something horrible>”

@ArneBab @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

the choice about how to accomodate the issue is not for cisgender people

you know this even too well

@AbbieNormal @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber You forgot a verb. "is not for cisgender people to take" or "is not for cisgender people to discuss"?

The first demands decency: call people how they want to be called.

The second forbids people their voice.

@ArneBab @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

are you really arguing that the adoption of a linguistic solution they don't like will harm cisgender people as much as transgender people are harmed by the current language ?

@ArneBab @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

I'll paste something I've written already:

His preference was just an excuse for not giving the trans community the desire of establishing a more bearable language

@ArneBab @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

this is not a linguistic issue

the point of arguing is not language. It's not giving trans people what they ask

your distinction between making a chice and discussing it is bogus

and crying that some freedom is being infringed is outright ridiculous

@ArneBab @acuteanniemay @onepict @brainwane @cwebber

oh and by the way it's not an original argument

I've run into this argument before

"so the nazifeminist and the integralists of the political correcteness want to take our lives away !!"

That's shameful, to say at least

what's so brutal in sticking to they/them ?

I'll tell you: nothing at all

if there's any freeedom at stake here it's not Richard Stallman's neither yours

@acuteanniemay @cwebber @brainwane @AbbieNormal @onepict The arrogant attitude "I solved your problem without consulting you, now accept my solution" by us computer people is exactly why we have bad IT systems and global ubiquitous services with bad social consequences.

There is an accepted solution, so it's even worse: Per/perse is the next-level-arrogant "I solved my problem with your solution without consulting you, now accept my solution".

He doesn't intend it as disrespectful, he just doesn't realize that it is. But in effect yes, it is transphobic even if he intends to and thinks he empathizes with trans people.

To me where the abuse comes in, is that he said to at least one individual that he would not respect their partners pronouns. Folk have been talking to RMS behind the scenes for years. He's unwilling to change because of that arrogance. It also sends a message that his opinion matters over everyone else's. FLOSS to me is about collaboration and that includes listening to others and respecting their opinions and identity. Leaders need to be able to do that.

Well yes, it's been serious for a long time. Not just teachers, but pupils assaulting other pupils. In front of other pupils, it's an expression of power over someone else.

But the culture just handwaves the behaviour as boys will be boys. Just think about the type of person who does that and realise that some are adults now and have been for several decades.
@AbbieNormal @cwebber @acuteanniemay @brainwane

@onepict @AbbieNormal @cwebber @acuteanniemay @brainwane

While working at a school i had it the other way, kids shouting things like "fu**ing gayboy (multiple times, ) I was fobbed off 2with kids will be kids" and on another occasiion "Caretakers are fu**ing wan**ers" at me (or the caretaker I was with at the time), the latter resulted in said child being given suspension for a week, aka a week off school when told I said that is what he wants, so he won in some sense.

The problem is huge and has been getting worse

It is no wonder that people don't bother reporting stuff,

It's just pointless sometimes. Which is why times like this we need to hold our leaders accountable for their actions and attitudes.
@AbbieNormal @cwebber @acuteanniemay @brainwane

Sign in to participate in the conversation

The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!